Comment by cableshaft
2 years ago
This is very cool. I think you'll have a hard time finding a traditional board game publisher willing to put money into this (there might be one or two out there, but most will see this as prohibitively expensive for them), but you might be able to pull off a successful Kickstarter for them on your own.
Kind of like the Blinks game system, these little hexes with colored lights in them that each have a separate game in them and can 'teach' the other hexes they connect to.
One of the Blinks Kickstarters: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/move38/blinks-smart-boa...
Card games are generally played with 10-20 cards once you hit your mid/endgames. I can't think of a system where you'd have mechanical benefit of all those being epaper before you should go full digital. Having a few choice mechanics tied to them is the way to go.
What does epaper get you that paper doesn't? A microprocessor and persistent state. RFID cards on a board game might be a good middle state for most cards. Scan them as played. Build gamestate or dynamics to be populated to epaper.
Epaper would be good for storyline branches, timeline progressions, evolving characters. Make them traveling characters being owned by different players. Differentiate them from becoming a static scoreboard that could be represented on a single tablet.
Yeah, I've been thinking evolving characters. Also more complex algorithms that you can't do on paper or in your head (and can't inspect).
When watching TV shows that have cool card games, like Yu-Gi-Oh, it seems like the game doesn't have rules, but instead the kids reason about the characters by looking at the pictures. Weird unexpected stuff happens all the time, I was thinking about how to implement that in the real world.
For example, imagine a vampire card that has its eyes closed. You try using it, but it doesn't do anything. But, you notice that when you play at night the eyes are open and now it's a powerful vampire!
So you can do time-based mechanics, I could add location-based mechanics. You can also make the cards do different things based on what other cards are in play.
Dwarf Fortress, the card game?
> When watching TV shows that have cool card games, like Yu-Gi-Oh, it seems like the game doesn't have rules, but instead the kids reason about the characters by looking at the pictures.
This is basically how it worked writing-wise in the original Duel Monsters series (though the characters acted like these were mostly all known effects/interactions), after that came GX where they toned down the creativity and mostly used real effects, then in Zexal and afterwards I think they stuck almost entirely to real effects with occasional exceptions.
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The card game in Yu-Gi-Oh had "rules as the plot demands", at least during the seasons with Yugi and Yami-Yugi.
When they released the real-world Dueling Monsters card game, they tried to keep the rules consistent with the manga/series, but changed them in places to make a more playable game. Ex.: there is an upper limit to the damage you can do with the Berserker Soul ability.
There's a huge genre of computer-only card games now, many of which implement these kind of "card evolution" mechanics.
If you're into this sort of thing, I highly recommend checking out Inscryption, it has some really fun twists on this idea.
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Perhaps you should reach out to Prozd (suong won) if you got something solid to promote, or even discuss, he is a huge board game enthusiast.
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The thing about that is, now instead of just printing cards and some rules, interested parties now need to program at least a large portion of the game logic to make this work which increases their cost a large amount. (Not to mention that most trading card companies would not have the in-house capabilities to do that.) The thing that makes trading cards so popular for kids is that they are cheap. When I was at school the Kaiba starter deck for Yu-Gi-Oh was $30 and I got 50 cards, a mat for the game area, instructions and some art. A 2" e-ink display is like $10-15 wholesale which means for the same price (even adjusted for inflation) I'd receive maybe two cards at cost price. That would not be enough to keep 11 year old me entertained and as a parent I would not buy things that can be easily broken for my kids.
For what it's worth, the actual Yu-Gi-Oh trading card games has rules and the anime uses a very loose interpretation of those rules.
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All of those are existing TCG mechanics, though easier and more flexible in digital-only TCG (hearthstone, snap).
For instance in MTG day/night cycles were featured in the original werewolves (I want to say innistrad), location mechanics can be continuous effects on lands or ETBs, likewise for reaction to other cards in play.
Some of the most effective app-asssisted games I've played involved hidden knowledge. Alchemists and Mansions of Madness in particular.
Something like Kingdom Death[1] where there’s a state cup campaign and characters are upgraded via accumulation of cards might be a good candidate
[1] nsfw https://shop.kingdomdeath.com/collections/in-stock/products/...
Thanks!
Yeah, it's a weird in-between. I don't think a game publisher would take a risk on it, but neither would silicon valley VCs.
Kickstarter would be my bet too. I was going to put this project down for a little while and start a "real" startup though.....
I could see people backing this on kickstarter even if it wouldn't actually be a game you'd play for a long time, because of just the novelty of being able to invite your friends over to show them these cool cards.
I might do that!
By the way, I've been following your posts here for years! I'll trade you cards for candy!
I feel like Kickstarter is more like a tactic than a strategy.
That said, this might be a good "real startup." The problem domain seems modest (e-ink playing cards) but... could be a bridgehead to interesting territory.
These might be designed/used as playing cards, but it's actually a computer with lots of little portable screens. The actual thing is general, a proverbial "computing paradigm."
These are playing cards, but could be concert tickets, conference badges, security doohickeys... They can open a door, clock you in and display your in/out status. If you want to go full "SV Pitch:" these cards are money. Transfer 69 FTX coins onto a card at a secure terminal, and pay by handing it to the hooker. A casino could give you one of these to be your wallet.
Solutions looking for problems sometimes find them. See apple/msft.
> Transfer 69 FTX coins onto a card at a secure terminal, and pay by handing it to the hooker.
Nah. Part of the strip club experience will always be showering the strippers in dollar bills... and why would you do regular payments for hookers with a special token?! Almost all credit and debit cards (=EMV cards) already can do this by NFC and you can also use watches and phones for this, the problem rather is:
- sex workers are pretty much banned from conventional payment methods and networks because sex work is illicit in many countries and even where it's legal, many sex workers prefer hard cash because chargeback fraud aka "post nut clarity" or actually stolen credentials is so common
- whenever you start a new payment scheme - because you are doing precisely this! - you WILL have to follow banking laws and regulations: customer identification, anti-smurfing and other money laundering measures, compliances for data protection, reports to banking authorities... an insane mess to do right. Of course, you can also hope to do a Bitcoin... but given the penalties if you are ever caught by the authorities, it's not worth it.
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I think the road to a new ubiquitous technology often starts with toys.
> I don't think a game publisher would take a risk on it, but neither would silicon valley VCs.
You might still try for the latter. Especially if you can think of ways to make the business bigger.
Really? Any specific funds you think I should talk to?
Can intro me to anyone? email me: jonah@wyldcard.io
I was thinking, very possibly, if I found some angel investors who also love boardgames.....
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Firstly super novel idea with tons of space for both technical and gameplay innovation. Really love it!
If we're talking business models, the one which immediately comes to mind as appropriate is that of a gaming console. Sell the hardware (e-cards, maybe a mat?) at a loss, then sell games for it at no marginal cost. Let other people build games for it because hit games are what sell platforms.
Since this essentially a portable gaming device, consumers may compare it to e.g. a Nintendo Switch - if you undercut the Switch and you have a blockbuster title or two, you could have incredible product on your hands.
Presumably the lucrative economics of trading card games could be applied here as well...!
Ooh hey, yes this could work.....
I think I'd need funding for that though, can't bootstrap a platform without that first blockbuster game.