Comment by halostatue
8 months ago
I do believe that there is bad design and Apple occasionally falls prey to it. Design that is not suited to purpose, like the late-2010s keyboards, is bad design. Design that is intentionally anti-human (anti-loitering architecture, HP printer locks, etc.) is bad design.
The notch is not bad design: it is a design compromise. In reality the presence of the notch increases the overall screen space with the reduced bezel. That electronics wizardry and physics do not currently permit under-screen high definition cameras means that you need bezel space for it. That Apple managed to get it to be ~35mm x ~9mm is impressive. On every other laptop in the world with a webcam at the top, that ~9mm is required forehead on the laptop, meaning at least a ~9mm bezel.
And Apple is not rushing to replace this. After all, we've had three generations of Apple laptops released with the notch. Sure, if/when they prove they can do a quality under-screen camera, they will update this (after they update the iPhone family). But calling this "bad design" is suggesting that you could do better.
It's horrible for consuming media, among many other things. I honestly don't get why you're defending something that is bad design. And yes, I could do better. Remove the notch. ta-da ! Instantly better. Users, developers, testers, device repair folks, part suppliers, all will thank me :)
"Consuming media" seems like the worst possible argument against the notch, since the area below the notch is already 16:10 and will have letterboxing when watching 16:9 or wider content whether or not the notch exists.
Pictures don't exist? Sorry, I am out of this conversation. Its patently obvious that I will fail to convince the fans of the notch here.
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>And yes, I could do better. Remove the notch. ta-da !
I can do one better. Don't buy it! Ta-da! Notch gone from your life and you can be happy again.
Consider that you are wrong and are not adept to designing products when compromises need to be made.
If you like it so much, take a piece of black tape and apply a notch to all your screens. I'll continue to criticize bad design.
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I have never noticed the notch when watching fullscreen videos or seeing fullscreen pictures.
I do notice it with my current background, but it doesn't bother me.
Removing the notch (by removing the webcam) is not an option that most people are interested in. Removing the notch by putting a forehead (and therefore shrinking total available screen space) is not an option that most people are interested in. What is your design brilliance for a relatively lightweight 14" laptop with minimal bezels and a high quality web camera in the centre of the screen?
You don't have one, because you have convinced yourself that anyone who disagrees with you "likes" the notch.
Literally everyone who has said that you're wrong has said some variation of:
1. Haven't really noticed it in X time using it 2. It doesn't bother me, because I have more screen space for the main windows, and the menu / task icons are now in space that wasn't available before 3. It's not a selling point for the laptop, but neither is it a disaster, and it's barely noticeable.
You have called it bad design. Pretty much everyone who has responded to your repetitive message has said "it's a compromise". Bad design is anti-human. This isn't anti-human, it's a compromise.
Statistically, no one is going to immediately buy a new version of a MacBook that does not have the notch just because it does not have the notch. They will do so because it offers a substantial boost over their current configuration (speed, RAM, display space, storage), and they may not even notice that there's not a notch anymore…unless they have used tools like Bartender or Hand Mirror that can take advantage of your cursor being under the notch to trigger useful functionality.
If you actually had a useful suggestion, I’m sure that Apple would love to hear from you (I’ll bet they've tried a lot of ideas that you have had and many more you haven't; they're not perfect, but they are really good at design experimentation and industrial processes). Until then, you’re just another Abe Simpson complaining about things on the Internet.
He's probably just a young kid or trolling. Kids have a tendency to overdial on the thing itself instead of the utility the thing can offer you. There's no way a fully functioning adult can be this obtuse.
>1. Haven't really noticed it in X time using it 2. It doesn't bother me, because I have more screen space for the main windows, and the menu / task icons are now in space that wasn't available before 3. It's not a selling point for the laptop, but neither is it a disaster, and it's barely noticeable.
I routinely jump between different devices with and without notches. The notched devices continue to highlight the flawed UX each time. For people who unconditionally love Apple (quite a few on HN) or don't care either way, its not a problem.
>You have called it bad design. Pretty much everyone who has responded to your repetitive message has said "it's a compromise".
Its true, 10 people on an online forum disagreed with me.
>Bad design is anti-human.
Anti-human? You've lost me sorry.
>Statistically, no one is going to immediately buy a new version of a MacBook that does not have the notch just because it does not have the notch. They will do so because it offers a substantial boost over their current configuration (speed, RAM, display space, storage), and they may not even notice that there's not a notch anymore…unless they have used tools like Bartender or Hand Mirror that can take advantage of your cursor being under the notch to trigger useful functionality.
Yes, I agree and said so. Its not enough of an irritant to disqualify the purchase.
> I’m sure that Apple would love to hear from you (I’ll bet they've tried a lot of ideas that you have had and many more you haven't; they're not perfect, but they are really good at design experimentation and industrial processes). Until then, you’re just another Abe Simpson complaining about things on the Internet.
Apple doesn't want to hear from me because they already know the notch is ridiculous. They're working on removing it, they have stated all but publicly - because Apple never acknowledges their flaws unless they are sued.
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Great! You removed the notch. Now we don't have a webcam.
:)