Comment by sangnoir
3 months ago
> A hackintosh could be a good option, and when somebody learns to do it well they could do it for others for money
Apple thoroughly screwed over Mac developers that the only compelling software that's exclusive to MacOS is developed by Apple themselves[1], IMO. Even those packages have equivalent (or better) alternatives on Windows. Macs used to be the platform for DTP, audio and video production - now all the 3rd party developers have pivoted away to other operating systems. One of the reasons professionals resorted to Hackintoshes in the past was because Apple had periods of neglecting the Mac Pro hardware on and off. Why would anyone go through the paid of setting up a Hackintosh in 2024, outside of being a fan of MacOS aesthetics?
1. Logic Pro likely has the biggest pull; Final Cut isn't the halo app it once was.
I use many third-party apps on MacOS that are top of the line in their niche, regardless of OS. People have many different uses for computers and workflows that you are unfamiliar with.
When you discover how programs on MacOS can connect and interact with each other and with the OS as a whole, it becomes a completely different experience.
Macs continue to absolutely dominate audio and video production, and desktop publishing. You're just making stuff up.
Nice strawman! You completely demolished a market share argument I never made. My point is that audio and video professionals now have viable alternatives to Apple software. Running MacOS is now optional, which wasn't the case in the past, so there's less of an impetus for running MacOS on an non-Apple hardware.
As for making stuff up - I don't know if you remember the years of neglecting Mac Pros, or the clusterfuck that was Final Cut Pro X. I do. I remember a lot of dyed-in-the-wool Apple users switching to Adobe on Windows. How many 3rd party DTP, audio or video production packages are still exclusively available on Apple?
Only on the countries where Apple brand dominates, the remaining of the 80% desktop market share makes do with Windows and eventually some custom Linux distros supported by the hardware vendors themselves.
VFX Reference platform includes Windows and Linux for a reason.
https://vfxplatform.com/
I'd run a Linux desktop if it wasn't for audio production. Mac's Core Audio / Core Midi are the top of the heap.
I couldn't agree more. I started my life buying/using Macs but nowadays I wonder why people make the financial effort considering the very large premium even though Macs don't do anything much better anymore.
You are right that the main driver is probably Logic. Final Cut is being largely replaced by BlackMagic and Adobe softwares (because they work everywhere and integrate better with other things people care about). Avid software works just as well on PC. As for the desktop publishing stuff, this is a use case so trivial (and in some ways displayed by web tools) and so dominated by Adobe that it feels Adobe is really doing Apple a favor in keeping their software update/optimized on time.
In my opinion/experience, they keep selling them because it is very hard for people to change. Most keep using them because this is what they are used to and similar reasons.
This is where Apple is very shortsighted and acting pretty stupid, you can see the young largely ignoring Apple computers because they are way too expensive, I believe they have permanently eroded their domination even in the media industries, because even though they have the money it won't take long to notice they can keep doing the same quality work even if they buy hardware half as expensive because it makes no difference to their young workers.
Apple premium pricing was a historical artifact of always being on the bleeding edge and being one step ahead of the competition for many things. Now, aside of the silicon (that has some advantage for the laptop in the form of battery life, but not really any for the desktop) it doesn't feel like they are ahead for anything.
In fact, when you take a hard look, you realize they are selling update of stuff that were designed 10 to 15 years ago and not much has changed when the PC industry as a whole has evolved quite a lot.
What is strong though, is the delusions of people defending their extortionate price for whatever ridiculous reason they can think of at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, I think Macs are ok for the most part, just not at their current price, especially in Europe (France).
Why is it a hacker thing to denounce everybody with a different opinion or preference as "delusional" or brain washed?
For many people it is nothing to pay a couple of hundred dollars more for a device that in their experience is easier to use or in their preference looks wise, even if the geek specs are worse. Especially for a device they'll be using for many years.
> In fact, when you take a hard look, you realize they are selling update of stuff that were designed 10 to 15 years ago and not much has changed when the PC industry as a whole has evolved quite a lot.
Then why has the PC industry not been able to catch up with Apple in computer design in all this time? A 2014 Macbook still looks better than any 2024 PC laptop. It's beyond weird to me by now. Apple made a great leap in design with the unibody Macbooks, but then after more than a decade nobody else has came after, even though customers would love it.
Imagine if there was only one car manufacturer that could design a good looking car...
Where did you find me saying it was a hacker thing? And it's not simply about having a different opinion, those are perfectly fine.
It's about saying things that range from deceptive statements to outright lies designed to satisfy the cognitive dissonance created by making a somewhat less optimum choice (sometimes irrational). It's all about projections and insecurities.
A couple hundred more was the case in the 2000-2010s but nowadays, Apple hardware very quickly closes up on thousands of euros difference for a device capable of the same workloads.
The RAM controversy started precisely because of that fact; on paper entry level MacBooks bench very well, but as soon as you start you level up your workload the truth appears and suddenly a much cheaper device less powerful on paper gets more done. There are plenty of youtubers who demonstrated that, even self-proclaimed Apple fanboys.
This is exactly what I mean by delusional: you can be happy/content with your purchase but trying to downplay the stupid compromises one has to make at a given price point is complete foolery no matter what the perceived advantages a MacBook may bring. Trying to rationalize/minimise those facts to others in order to justify Apple's extortionate pricing is very close to religious beliefs which is delusional by definition.
My first job was working for an Apple service provider (very high end) so I know firsthand the various reasons that may be valid for buying a Mac; but with Apple current business practice it has become less and less advisable, pretending otherwise don't get you bonus point from Apple...
Then you say that somehow a 2014 MacBook looks better than any PC laptop. Now I wonder if you live under a rock or just didn't check any modern laptop worth a dam recently (to be clear, I am generally talking about laptops in the 1K euros range at least). Have you seen a modern Huawei laptop (looks pretty much like a MacBook until you start looking at it closely), in my country it starts at half the price of a MacBook Air; in fact, as a Mac user, the first time someone handed one to me I couldn't believe the price they paid for it and the assembly quality for said price.
But even then, looks are a rather subjective thing, and you can say it looks better to you, but it is not really an exact truth. I find their latest design bulky and inelegant, well made, sure, but not necessarily nice/interesting looking. In fact, Surface devices look very nice as well (even though they are overpriced, they still manage to be better value will less volume); Asus has some pretty good-looking laptops, HP as well, even Dell manage pretty good with their XPS line.
Trying to justify multiple hundreds of euros price difference (at minimum) for a subjectively better look is not exactly rational behavior. It would be like someone trying to sell me on his Louis Vuitton handbag purchase that is "worth the price" because it looks good; even though the common LV pattern is a toilet room tile pattern that should have stayed there. You could have paid a master craftsman to make an even better bag to your specifications that would look just as good (I live close to one of their factories so I know that for a fact). But few people are delusional enough to say shit like that, because it was not a rational purchase, this is all about emotions and the emotions it brings in other peoples.
The problem I have with fanboys (Apple's or any other for that matter) is that they try to pretend otherwise and that's just delusional. Apple is a company that mastered marketing and knows very well how to create desire that will inflate the value of their products that should be tools first and foremost. Some people like this fact and I find it a bit sad (considering the supposed use case of the device), others begrudgingly pay the price because of various reasons (that very often boils down to limited self-imposed choices).
As for the unibody I don't think you understand why exactly Apple is doing that. It has a lot more to do with saving on device assembly (making stuff more complicated to repair in the process) and ROI on the billions they invested in custom CNCs than any real benefits for the user. It doesn't make the laptops last longer (not that it matters considering how fast Apple is obsoleting their stuff nowadays) and it can render a device useless for just a dent at the wrong place, because you can't swap chassis. On top of that, modern premium laptops have moved on to magnesium alloys that noticeably save weight without compromising on strength and Apple hardware is often heavier for a given form factor.
I could go on for days so I will leave it at that. Just to be clear I am not saying all Apple stuff is all bad or whatever just that it is tiring to see people defending their stuff tooth and nail when considering the price their customers should ask for much more and the behavior that consist in defending all the very real compromises of their gear is, yes, delusional.