I’ve done a session of holotropic breathwork before. It was a surprisingly strong experience.
25 minutes of rapid deepish breathing while listening to music. I was doing it as part of a group session and funnily it was conducted via zoom.
After the first 10, it becomes easy to keep the breathing pace. Moderately deep hallucinations, sweating a _lot_ on the bed. The weirdest part was that my face wanted to screw up in contortions. I felt my lips tight and couldn’t control my facial muscles until they hurt. I lost track of time and the session felt like it ended quickly.
Afterwards there was a positivity mindset like a mild mushroom afterglow. I would probably do it again.
It also leaves you in a very suggestive state. I did several sessions with a “rebirther” years ago, basically holotropic breath work. I decided I didn’t really need it, and I went in my last few sessions determined to quit, but at the end of the session, the practitioner always managed to convince me I needed another session. I eventually broke it off with him over the phone.
I've heard about people awakening their kundalini with that. It fucked them for years since they had no clue what was happening, and no preparation or support.
Yes! Holotropic is crazy strong. I remember having to sign a waiver that was akin to a skydiving waiver before doing holotropic breathwork session online. Highly recommended if you feel inclined to try it.
This sounds great but I just can't get by the oxygen deprivation and potential harm to your brain. Not to mention the hypercapnia induced tetany is very uncomfortable and seems a clear signal from the body that "this isn't good!".
[As part of a psychedelic retreat we did breathwork the day before the trip to "open the mind". I faked it because I was worried about the above unanswered questions I had. I still had a great trip and feel no need for another one or similar (ie. via breathwork) to this day. :) ]
In response to this there is vasoconstriction of the cerebral vasculature. No one knows if mild damage is being done to the brain from this.
Somewhat related (not exact same mechanism, but similar), there is evidence elite free-divers are harming their brains [1]. It is easy enough to find literature about the appearance of SB100 protein with too long apnea training (eg. [2]).
However, breath-holding/apnea is not the same as breathwork. The fact of the matter is, there will be no definitive proof one way or the other until someone directly probes cerebral O2 levels for an acute and chronic intervention of breathwork. Again, as someone who has indeed done psychedelics and meditates, I am open to alternative modalities, but I will personally wait for the science over anecdotes.
At least I appreciate they have the decency to not call it "higher states of consciousness". Altered is what they are, altered almost to the point of losing it, but definitely not higher - at least for my understanding where "higher" would mean some added capabilities not attained otherwise.
I think I recall reading a paper a while back on free divers that showed there was damage being done to the brain even though it wasn't immediately apparent. Similar to how lots of small brain impacts add up in football players.
I'm almost certain any amount of oxygen deprivation is damaging to the brain. If there were studies that showed conclusions to the contrary, I'd be very curious to read them.
But in seriousness hyperoxia is mildly psychedelic, especially when you are in a state (athletic, euphoric, love etc) which naturally produces high levels of serotonin, oxytocin, dopamine, etc.
When I was backpacking for 7 months with my wife, I would climb mountains as fast as I could and wait for her at the tops. I started doing wim hof while waiting and it was deeply rewarding
To add to this - if you get buried in an avalanche you likely go hypoxic. Many people pulled out sometimes in the moment react negatively to be saved as they are pulled out of a euphoric state even though they are literally getting saved from death.
Thank you for introducing me to this. Having done just one round, the effects are reminiscent of nitrous oxide. Very interesting indeed! As you suggest, I think I'll try this again after a bout of vigorous exercise.
Did you feel like it was “good” for you in any way? I’ve experienced the euphoria and I definitely compare it to nitrous oxide, in that it is pleasurable, fleeting and unfulfilling. Plus I sometimes ended up with a persistent headache.
It made me feel better temporarily in a time of distress, but like any drug, it only numbed me and did nothing to improve my outlook.
Sounds counter intuitive but breathwork reduces o2 to brain. Basically due to reduced co2, blood vessels in the brain constrict.
Having said that, I worked with a breathwork teacher for a while, creating narrative for the session, for mental imagery and guidance. It also had music as a backdrop. Fun times. And it was definitely altered state for a lot of people.
EXACTLY! That's why you breathe into a paper-bag (or smoke) to increase CO2 so that the filters open and you get to a point where you feel O2 tingles all over your brain. This is extremely powerful; I practiced that and underwater held-breath swimming and hanging out underwater for a long time to obtain permanent changes that have made me far more effective. Based on work first published by W.Wenger out of a Maryland Think-tank some 50? years ago.
So wim hof method, by breathing a lot, deprives you of oxygen, reducing brain functionality and therefore giving you a drug-like pleasure, whereas recycling air in a bag ends up giving you more oxygen and increasing brain efficiency? May sound like sarcasm, but honestly, do I need a diving gear to test it on myself or is a paper bag enough?
My GP friends only pointed me to respiratory alcalosis, which doesn’t appear to be about O2 levels at all - it’s the pH being out of the narrow “acceptable” band (too low in the case of hyperventilation) appeared to cause a lot of effect.
Though not acute, you can see the effects very easily. Within couple of minutes of deep breathing we could create peripheral numbing and tingling effect. (yoga folk say you are feeling energy moving though body and that kind of stuff haha)
So the narrative was emotional/trauma release. When people get into altered state, the narrative said that their unresolved emotions would come to surface and be felt into their body and then they accept those things from the past and then the emotions would dissolve and there will be a 'release'. Its a common narrative, I wrote and organized the content so that a first timer would get impressed to expect a release. It worked for several people.
Holotropics has been around for quite a while and some yoga pranayamas also can lead to altered states. I have to admit I find mushrooms easier to deal with.
Ahhh yes, the bespoke, organic, pesticide free high of the true people. Why struggle when 10-20€ worth of ketamine will make you glide through impossible (un)existence for an hour or so.
Elitism and snobbism in spirituality and meditation circles is real!
I wonder what other effects this has on the body. The signaling around CO2 levels does a lot to cellular respiration everywhere, not just the brain (think krebs cycle, etc).
There's a product out, Freespira, that does breath work training monitored by a nasal cannula, to help people who experience panic attacks. The theory is that such people are chronic hyperventilators, so their blood CO2 is too low for the parasympathetic nervous system to operate correctly.
It didn't end up being a good fit for me, but if a person's PTSD comes from discrete events rather than a continually unsafe environment in early childhood, I think they'd have a better experience. (My parasympathetic nervous system never learned how to operate correctly, but if someone else's did and its function got interrupted later, I think their experience would be different.)
Strange side note. I've tried n-acetylcysteine as a supplement/medication, the weirdest thing about it is that I felt like I needed to breathe less often. And like I was breathing manually - which you are also doing now, ha.
I’ve read of a credible person who says they use breathwork of some kind to help enter a state of flow. Does anyone here know if this sounds right? If so, how would one learn? Books? Courses? Coaches? Also, knowing nothing about it I’d assumed the breathwork would be like mindfulness or meditative breathing, but is this wrong? It might be something closer to hyperventilating?
The article mentioned Holotropic Breathwork, which is a method Stanislav Grof came up with after no longer being able to use LSD for his research in the 1960s. I haven't taken a course in it, but it does seem similar to Wim Hof's technique, which you can follow along an intro of on his YouTube [1].
All of it is pretty similar to various pranayama techniques that have existed in the yogas for thousands of years though. Iyengar's Light on Pranayama is a good resource for the various practices [2]. While Wim Hof and Holotropic Breathwork are slightly different, the closest to them from the yogas would maybe be bhastrika pranayam (and here's a random guy on YouTube that comes up when googling it -- just skimming it and it looks basically like what I was taught [3]).
Edit: I realized I didn't answer your question regarding how pranayama/breathwork compares to meditation. It's different than meditation (dhyana or jhana), but it's complimentary and there are elements that are similar. For instance, during pranayama practice you'll often have breath holds/retentions and during that time you'll be instructed to bring your awareness to something (a point on your body, on the awareness itself, etc). This is generally what you'd do in formal meditation practice too, but in this case it's for a much shorter period of time (the length of the breath hold). So in a way it gets you used to working with your awareness, to bring it internal for short periods of time many times. Many people will practice pranayama before beginning formal seated meditation practice. I personally use nadi shodhana before meditation practice, and more vigorous pranayamas like kapalbhati and bhastrika before/during/after asana practice. They're also good to do in the middle of the day when you need a bit of a reset.
But hyperventilating sounds scientific and reductive circles are mystical and sell well! And we gotta separate our ancient shamanic yogi breathing school from those damn box breathing gurus!
Breathwork is a really uncomfortable experience. I lay on a floor mat hyperventilating for an hour with a group of people only to feel a little expanded. Breathwork was developed as an alternative to psychedelics becasue those were illegal, and now that psilocybin is readily available in California there's no need for it. Thumbs down.
It takes a while to get used to breathwork. When I started, focusing on the breath always gave me anxiety. It took quite a while to make it into a comfortable experience.
Your buddy ought to see a healthcare professional, I'm just some guy on the internet.
That said: here's a description of prodromal schizophrenia. Your description reads like category #2 to me.
"Prodrome phase can also be categorized in three different ways:
Category 1 means the patient should have at least one of the following symptoms: False beliefs that random events in the world directly relate to them, odd beliefs, or magical thinking; visual disturbance; odd thinking and speech; paranoid ideation; and odd behavior or appearance.
Category 2 includes patients who have experienced psychotic symptoms that come and go, which have spontaneously resolved within a week.
Category 3 includes a combination of genetic risk (i.e., being the first-degree relative of an individual with a diagnosis of schizophrenia) with substantial changes in personal daily functioning in the previous year. "
I believe running, especially long runs will cause changes in brain chemistry. Rapid increases in norepinephrine, GABA, and serotonin. I wonder if that sudden release triggers something. Same mechanism as a runner’s high
Interesting. It is common for marathon runners to experience cognitive impairment, delusions, and hallucinations. Does this occur late in the run? Is heat, altitude, or lack of fueling a factor?
It felt strange, yes you can midly hallucinate and feel "otherworldly" but I always left thinking "ok, I just hyperventilated for 20 minutes ... this is exatly how I'd expect to feel".
And now we have a scientific study that proves it.
As if we fully understand, brain, conciousness, biology, body & spiritual experiences fully. There is so much to learn.
The questions for instance arises how does this connect to emotional & spiritual experiences that derive from those practices.
It's the same with psychedelics, they are chemically induced but often lead to meaningful experiences due a shift in the way we experience reality & conciousness.
Is it a peak into a wider experience of the world that makes us realize the world as we experience it, might not be as real as we think it is? Who knows, so many interesting questions & options.
The funny thing is I spend my free time learning as much as I can about consciousness, alterered states of consciousness, the nature of reality, spirtual experiences, all that stuff.
That's how I ended up in a breathwork session.
But I still live in the universe, and the universe follows rules.
In this case, my body's CO2/Oxygen imbalance was out of whack, and I probably should have started breathing into a paper bag.
Consciousness is cool and all, but doing solid breathwork for over 20 minutes will upset the balance of molecules impotrant to a functioning consciousness. So while you may feel yourself soaring toward another dimension, it's your brain screaming for oxygen.
One should avoid this. It damages the brain. Better is just pure meditation where you can reach bliss states pretty fast once you can get access concentration.
Just the word "breathwork" is obnoxious to me. I suppose it's interesting that if you hyperventilate enough you can reduce oxygen in your brain to the point where you hallucinate. And that is probably safer than taking psychedelics.
But the idea that you would do that routinely seems obviously stupid to me. I think if you keep doing it for a number of years then you could damage your brain. My understanding is that your brain needs oxygen.
> Hyperventilation is irregular breathing that occurs when the rate or tidal volume of breathing eliminates more carbon dioxide than the body can produce.
Removing carbon dioxide via your lungs doesn't mean your brain gets more oxygen. The "altered states of consciousness" are symptoms of oxygen deprivation which can be induced in other ways, but maybe hyperventilation is a particularly fun way to do it.
I take it you haven't put a lot of effort into examining the practice? Pranayama is a pretty comprehensive system, and it has survived to this day for good reasons.
I’ve done a session of holotropic breathwork before. It was a surprisingly strong experience.
25 minutes of rapid deepish breathing while listening to music. I was doing it as part of a group session and funnily it was conducted via zoom.
After the first 10, it becomes easy to keep the breathing pace. Moderately deep hallucinations, sweating a _lot_ on the bed. The weirdest part was that my face wanted to screw up in contortions. I felt my lips tight and couldn’t control my facial muscles until they hurt. I lost track of time and the session felt like it ended quickly.
Afterwards there was a positivity mindset like a mild mushroom afterglow. I would probably do it again.
That sounds like your body telling you not to do it.
Strong Darwin Award vibes here
It also leaves you in a very suggestive state. I did several sessions with a “rebirther” years ago, basically holotropic breath work. I decided I didn’t really need it, and I went in my last few sessions determined to quit, but at the end of the session, the practitioner always managed to convince me I needed another session. I eventually broke it off with him over the phone.
It sounds like you experienced oxygen deprivation.
how do you suppose he got oxygen deprivation by breathing deeply?
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oxygen deprivation is not euphoric. shouldn't be so flippantly reductive
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I've heard about people awakening their kundalini with that. It fucked them for years since they had no clue what was happening, and no preparation or support.
What changes with oneself when they awaken their kundalini?
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You mean someone awakened their kundalini, wasn't aware of it, and it took years for them to figure it out? Can you describe the symptoms?
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Yes! Holotropic is crazy strong. I remember having to sign a waiver that was akin to a skydiving waiver before doing holotropic breathwork session online. Highly recommended if you feel inclined to try it.
It can be deeply emotional for some.
This sounds great but I just can't get by the oxygen deprivation and potential harm to your brain. Not to mention the hypercapnia induced tetany is very uncomfortable and seems a clear signal from the body that "this isn't good!".
[As part of a psychedelic retreat we did breathwork the day before the trip to "open the mind". I faked it because I was worried about the above unanswered questions I had. I still had a great trip and feel no need for another one or similar (ie. via breathwork) to this day. :) ]
Oxygen deprivation? As noted in the study, circular breathwork has been shown to increase blood oxygenation
In response to this there is vasoconstriction of the cerebral vasculature. No one knows if mild damage is being done to the brain from this.
Somewhat related (not exact same mechanism, but similar), there is evidence elite free-divers are harming their brains [1]. It is easy enough to find literature about the appearance of SB100 protein with too long apnea training (eg. [2]).
However, breath-holding/apnea is not the same as breathwork. The fact of the matter is, there will be no definitive proof one way or the other until someone directly probes cerebral O2 levels for an acute and chronic intervention of breathwork. Again, as someone who has indeed done psychedelics and meditates, I am open to alternative modalities, but I will personally wait for the science over anecdotes.
[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29053942 [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19574501/
At least I appreciate they have the decency to not call it "higher states of consciousness". Altered is what they are, altered almost to the point of losing it, but definitely not higher - at least for my understanding where "higher" would mean some added capabilities not attained otherwise.
I feel the same. I did it once and had a big experience, but I just can my talk myself into believing it’s safe.
Free divers experience the same hypoxia and hypercapnia effects. Doesn't seem to be a problem.
I think I recall reading a paper a while back on free divers that showed there was damage being done to the brain even though it wasn't immediately apparent. Similar to how lots of small brain impacts add up in football players.
> Doesn't seem to be a problem
I'm almost certain any amount of oxygen deprivation is damaging to the brain. If there were studies that showed conclusions to the contrary, I'd be very curious to read them.
They die all the time. It's a problem. :P
As wim would say, get high on your own supply.
But in seriousness hyperoxia is mildly psychedelic, especially when you are in a state (athletic, euphoric, love etc) which naturally produces high levels of serotonin, oxytocin, dopamine, etc.
When I was backpacking for 7 months with my wife, I would climb mountains as fast as I could and wait for her at the tops. I started doing wim hof while waiting and it was deeply rewarding
To add to this - if you get buried in an avalanche you likely go hypoxic. Many people pulled out sometimes in the moment react negatively to be saved as they are pulled out of a euphoric state even though they are literally getting saved from death.
Just don't do Wim Hof type breathing while driving, near water or risk of fall is high. You can pass out or faint easily if you do it a little wrong.
Thank you for introducing me to this. Having done just one round, the effects are reminiscent of nitrous oxide. Very interesting indeed! As you suggest, I think I'll try this again after a bout of vigorous exercise.
What specifically did you try? The wim hof breathing method after strenuous exercise?
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Did you feel like it was “good” for you in any way? I’ve experienced the euphoria and I definitely compare it to nitrous oxide, in that it is pleasurable, fleeting and unfulfilling. Plus I sometimes ended up with a persistent headache.
It made me feel better temporarily in a time of distress, but like any drug, it only numbed me and did nothing to improve my outlook.
Wim hof feels great, but I always kinda feel like I’m doing something mildly unhealthy when I do it
How exactly do you ‘do’ wim hof and for how long?
The Wim Hof method is explained here:
https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises
Here’s a guided video by Wim Hof, you can just listen to it while you lay down and follow along:
https://youtu.be/0BNejY1e9ik?feature=shared
If you’re open to it, I can teach you. My email is in my profile
Sounds counter intuitive but breathwork reduces o2 to brain. Basically due to reduced co2, blood vessels in the brain constrict.
Having said that, I worked with a breathwork teacher for a while, creating narrative for the session, for mental imagery and guidance. It also had music as a backdrop. Fun times. And it was definitely altered state for a lot of people.
EXACTLY! That's why you breathe into a paper-bag (or smoke) to increase CO2 so that the filters open and you get to a point where you feel O2 tingles all over your brain. This is extremely powerful; I practiced that and underwater held-breath swimming and hanging out underwater for a long time to obtain permanent changes that have made me far more effective. Based on work first published by W.Wenger out of a Maryland Think-tank some 50? years ago.
So wim hof method, by breathing a lot, deprives you of oxygen, reducing brain functionality and therefore giving you a drug-like pleasure, whereas recycling air in a bag ends up giving you more oxygen and increasing brain efficiency? May sound like sarcasm, but honestly, do I need a diving gear to test it on myself or is a paper bag enough?
What kind of changes?
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Any pointers to read more ?
My GP friends only pointed me to respiratory alcalosis, which doesn’t appear to be about O2 levels at all - it’s the pH being out of the narrow “acceptable” band (too low in the case of hyperventilation) appeared to cause a lot of effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation - This leads to hypocapnia, a reduced concentration of carbon dioxide dissolved in the blood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocapnia - Acute hypocapnia causes hypocapnic alkalosis, which causes cerebral vasoconstriction leading to cerebral hypoxia
Though not acute, you can see the effects very easily. Within couple of minutes of deep breathing we could create peripheral numbing and tingling effect. (yoga folk say you are feeling energy moving though body and that kind of stuff haha)
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Was the narrative something like, "you're on a mountaintop. You look around and see..." Or was it more abstract than that?
So the narrative was emotional/trauma release. When people get into altered state, the narrative said that their unresolved emotions would come to surface and be felt into their body and then they accept those things from the past and then the emotions would dissolve and there will be a 'release'. Its a common narrative, I wrote and organized the content so that a first timer would get impressed to expect a release. It worked for several people.
Holotropics has been around for quite a while and some yoga pranayamas also can lead to altered states. I have to admit I find mushrooms easier to deal with.
An ascetic will tell you that a purer experience of spiritual connection is something you can control and remember afterwards.
You remember mushrooms after.
An ascetic will tell you that there was never any experience, nor any experiencer to have had one.
Remember what, the tingling mess and neuronal misfires of endogenous DMT release experience?
There is a always a purer version of any experience. This sounds a little elitist.
Ahhh yes, the bespoke, organic, pesticide free high of the true people. Why struggle when 10-20€ worth of ketamine will make you glide through impossible (un)existence for an hour or so.
Elitism and snobbism in spirituality and meditation circles is real!
1 reply →
I wonder what other effects this has on the body. The signaling around CO2 levels does a lot to cellular respiration everywhere, not just the brain (think krebs cycle, etc).
There's a product out, Freespira, that does breath work training monitored by a nasal cannula, to help people who experience panic attacks. The theory is that such people are chronic hyperventilators, so their blood CO2 is too low for the parasympathetic nervous system to operate correctly.
It didn't end up being a good fit for me, but if a person's PTSD comes from discrete events rather than a continually unsafe environment in early childhood, I think they'd have a better experience. (My parasympathetic nervous system never learned how to operate correctly, but if someone else's did and its function got interrupted later, I think their experience would be different.)
Strange side note. I've tried n-acetylcysteine as a supplement/medication, the weirdest thing about it is that I felt like I needed to breathe less often. And like I was breathing manually - which you are also doing now, ha.
I wonder if it helps with panic attacks.
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Interesting! Thanks for the pointer.
I’ve read of a credible person who says they use breathwork of some kind to help enter a state of flow. Does anyone here know if this sounds right? If so, how would one learn? Books? Courses? Coaches? Also, knowing nothing about it I’d assumed the breathwork would be like mindfulness or meditative breathing, but is this wrong? It might be something closer to hyperventilating?
The article mentioned Holotropic Breathwork, which is a method Stanislav Grof came up with after no longer being able to use LSD for his research in the 1960s. I haven't taken a course in it, but it does seem similar to Wim Hof's technique, which you can follow along an intro of on his YouTube [1].
All of it is pretty similar to various pranayama techniques that have existed in the yogas for thousands of years though. Iyengar's Light on Pranayama is a good resource for the various practices [2]. While Wim Hof and Holotropic Breathwork are slightly different, the closest to them from the yogas would maybe be bhastrika pranayam (and here's a random guy on YouTube that comes up when googling it -- just skimming it and it looks basically like what I was taught [3]).
Edit: I realized I didn't answer your question regarding how pranayama/breathwork compares to meditation. It's different than meditation (dhyana or jhana), but it's complimentary and there are elements that are similar. For instance, during pranayama practice you'll often have breath holds/retentions and during that time you'll be instructed to bring your awareness to something (a point on your body, on the awareness itself, etc). This is generally what you'd do in formal meditation practice too, but in this case it's for a much shorter period of time (the length of the breath hold). So in a way it gets you used to working with your awareness, to bring it internal for short periods of time many times. Many people will practice pranayama before beginning formal seated meditation practice. I personally use nadi shodhana before meditation practice, and more vigorous pranayamas like kapalbhati and bhastrika before/during/after asana practice. They're also good to do in the middle of the day when you need a bit of a reset.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ
[2] https://archive.org/details/iyengar-bks-light-on-pranayama-o...
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I578H4VoZiY
How were you introduced to all of this? I’d love to learn to practice original yoga/meditation.
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Thank you very much for this.
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I think the ancient yoga wizards of yore called that "Pranayama".
Is circular breath work just hyper ventilating?
But hyperventilating sounds scientific and reductive circles are mystical and sell well! And we gotta separate our ancient shamanic yogi breathing school from those damn box breathing gurus!
Yep. Feels good man.
Same as all the psychs.
And altered perspective can make you wiser.
It isn’t new, even for the academic community, that modulating CO2 levels via breathing alters consciousness.
Some of these sound more like advertisements.
if this topic interests you, check out this interview with Dr. Jack Feldman: https://hubermanlab.com/dr-jack-feldman-breathing-for-mental... -- i found the section about the effects of periodic hypoxia without retaining CO2 quite fascinating.
Ross and Carrie covered this on their podcast back in 2017, they had out of body experiences I believe. Link: https://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2017/10/21/ross-and-c...
Breathwork is a really uncomfortable experience. I lay on a floor mat hyperventilating for an hour with a group of people only to feel a little expanded. Breathwork was developed as an alternative to psychedelics becasue those were illegal, and now that psilocybin is readily available in California there's no need for it. Thumbs down.
It takes a while to get used to breathwork. When I started, focusing on the breath always gave me anxiety. It took quite a while to make it into a comfortable experience.
It really dries out the lungs besides being uncomfortable
There are a lot of breathing methods out there, like this, and Wim Hof. Is there any side by side comparisons.
Side by Side Down to exact method. So many breaths, long, short, lengths, times.
I'd really like to know if it all boils down to just O2/CO2 balance, and each method just ends up with a different ratio.
FYI: Not all breath-work is hyperventilating.
The study that has been mentioned talks about Holotropic Breathwork and Consciously-Connected breathwork are. I have worked with CCB.
My buddy goes into schizophrenia episodes every time he goes for a long run. Any ideas?
Your buddy ought to see a healthcare professional, I'm just some guy on the internet.
That said: here's a description of prodromal schizophrenia. Your description reads like category #2 to me.
"Prodrome phase can also be categorized in three different ways:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/prodromal-schizophrenia-51942...
I believe running, especially long runs will cause changes in brain chemistry. Rapid increases in norepinephrine, GABA, and serotonin. I wonder if that sudden release triggers something. Same mechanism as a runner’s high
@goggins would agree
Interesting. It is common for marathon runners to experience cognitive impairment, delusions, and hallucinations. Does this occur late in the run? Is heat, altitude, or lack of fueling a factor?
Acute toxicity due to distribution of accumulated toxin (of some kind) by the violent action of running.
Probably this House M.D. -tier answer.
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I've done breathwork sessions before.
It felt strange, yes you can midly hallucinate and feel "otherworldly" but I always left thinking "ok, I just hyperventilated for 20 minutes ... this is exatly how I'd expect to feel".
And now we have a scientific study that proves it.
It seemed pretty obvious to me.
That's a very technologist know it all answer.
As if we fully understand, brain, conciousness, biology, body & spiritual experiences fully. There is so much to learn.
The questions for instance arises how does this connect to emotional & spiritual experiences that derive from those practices.
It's the same with psychedelics, they are chemically induced but often lead to meaningful experiences due a shift in the way we experience reality & conciousness.
Is it a peak into a wider experience of the world that makes us realize the world as we experience it, might not be as real as we think it is? Who knows, so many interesting questions & options.
The funny thing is I spend my free time learning as much as I can about consciousness, alterered states of consciousness, the nature of reality, spirtual experiences, all that stuff.
That's how I ended up in a breathwork session.
But I still live in the universe, and the universe follows rules.
In this case, my body's CO2/Oxygen imbalance was out of whack, and I probably should have started breathing into a paper bag.
Consciousness is cool and all, but doing solid breathwork for over 20 minutes will upset the balance of molecules impotrant to a functioning consciousness. So while you may feel yourself soaring toward another dimension, it's your brain screaming for oxygen.
My 2 cents.
Kant already explained this in the mind of all “technologist know it all” though
Combination of excess oxygen and rhythmic/yogic type trance?
This is opening callback to birth trauma.
What about LSD
One should avoid this. It damages the brain. Better is just pure meditation where you can reach bliss states pretty fast once you can get access concentration.
citation needed
Just the word "breathwork" is obnoxious to me. I suppose it's interesting that if you hyperventilate enough you can reduce oxygen in your brain to the point where you hallucinate. And that is probably safer than taking psychedelics.
But the idea that you would do that routinely seems obviously stupid to me. I think if you keep doing it for a number of years then you could damage your brain. My understanding is that your brain needs oxygen.
Got that one backwards:
> Hyperventilation is irregular breathing that occurs when the rate or tidal volume of breathing eliminates more carbon dioxide than the body can produce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation
They were correct. Hemoglobin needs CO2 to release oxygen. If you are low on CO2 your tissues become oxygen deprived.
Removing carbon dioxide via your lungs doesn't mean your brain gets more oxygen. The "altered states of consciousness" are symptoms of oxygen deprivation which can be induced in other ways, but maybe hyperventilation is a particularly fun way to do it.
I take it you haven't put a lot of effort into examining the practice? Pranayama is a pretty comprehensive system, and it has survived to this day for good reasons.
„It’sa comprehensive system that survived for hundreds of years“ is true for a lot of woo woo, eg astrology.
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It seems obvious to me that the things you find obviously stupid, obviously aren't.