Comment by AnotherGoodName
17 days ago
There are complete passively cooled n3350 based systems on Ali express with 64gb storage and 6gb ram in a case with power supply ready to go for $65 with free shipping. That works out cheaper than the cheapest pi after buying case, storage and power for the pi. You can buy usb gpio breakouts for <$10 too. Lower power than the pi 4 too due to the huge process node advantage (despite the x86 disadvantages). 28nm vs 14nm for the pi 4 vs the n3350.
The pi is fun but honestly for pi hole or similar you might as well buy the all in one x86. For media streaming definitely buy the all in one x86. For gpio stuff ok the pi is reasonable but even then if you want to make a product rather than a home automation once off you’d go a different route completely.
I suspect a lot of the current disdain is a product of function creep. While the original Raspberry Pi was used as a desktop and server, people understood its limitations. Now that many of the limitations have diminished, to the point where you can expect reasonable performance as a desktop and use it as something more than a simple web server, people are justifiably comparing it to alternatives (which have come down in price over the same period of time).
Of course, the Pi is also facing competition from higher end microcontroller based solutions. People seem to forget that there was a time when hobbyists bought the Pi for "Internet of Things" like projects, both due to its cost and size. Then came the ESP8266 and ESP32 and development boards that packaged both a microcontroller and network interface.
This, but also that they gave a huge middle finger to the hobbyist community during the component crisis by giving preference to integrators.
Most makers I know have pivoted to ESP32 during this time as it was good enough and actually available. Probably would have happened sooner or later though.
The ESP32 has nothing to do with a Raspberry Pi. It's only good that people learnt to use the better tool (in terms of price and power consumption) once better tools like MicroPython or NodeMCU came around.
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I don't trust Ali express for anything serious. Cheap and Chinese doesn't have the appeal it used to.
I'm willing to pay a little more for a respected brand with a little more QA involved (and less hassle to me as a developer).
Too true.. I have a nas project in pieces on the table next to me, since I was out of work for several months and couldn't put any more into it... I "saved" a hundred dollars or so going from AliExpress components, the mainboard doesn't work right, and trying to get it replaced would cost about as much as a different board from AliExpress. In the end, I wish I'd spent the extra hundred or so on a different case and board. The cost of the drives significantly outweigh other costs.
It bugs me to no end how much a small (4-drive) nas can cost, compared to much more capable mini-pc prices.
That’s all true but the OP said that Pis are “no longer cheap”. The reply was simply a demonstration that they are still available at the same price point, no matter what the competition is or isn’t doing.
In this market, "cheap" is often comparative to performance. You can now get better capabilities for the same price.
Sure, if you want to deal with strange problems no one has ever faced. RPi's strength isn't in meaningless performance benchmarks, is in actually getting stuff done.
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Are there loads of driver support for those USB/GPIO things? I've only done that on PI and the Python libs made it super easy. Now it's one more thing to solve research rather built-in.
I don't think so - if you needed GPIO on a small x86 the easiest way would be to hook an Arduino / RP2040 to it. That seems like it's still the sweet spot for RPi, esp. the Zero W, if you need small, low-power, full OS and GPIO.
This.
Not really. I've been researching this extensively lately to try to add GPIO to my stack of Dell Wyse 3040s.
Options with mainline linux kernel drivers:
- MCP2221A (i2c + 4x GPIO)
- CP2112 (i2c + GPIO)
Options without kernel support:
- FT232H
- Arduino nano and clones
- Raspberry Pi Pico running some interesting firmware
- ESP32 running something like ESPHome (completely separate from host)
I've chosen the Pico for now and forked the u2if project for firmware and host support[1]. I also put together a generic ESPHome-compatible protocol server in python to tie my widgets to Home Assistant[2].
[1]: https://github.com/peterkeen/u2if
[2]: https://github.com/peterkeen/aioesphomeserver
Why do everyone latch onto bit-banging pins from Linux??? Isn't that going to exhibit wildly unpredictable delays? Wouldn't you normally compartmentalize hardware handling into an OS-free or hard-realtime microcontroller and let the uC communicate with host CPU in less-realtime manners?
You can roll your own "RGB temperature sensing modem" and get/set values with `bash` and `expect` over ttyUSB, no one PWM controls RGB LEDs on a gaming keyboard straight from a task tray app. Trying to wrestle GPIO problems that way is going to be unnecessarily hard.
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I have seen a I2C implementation on the RP2040 that works with native support.
https://github.com/Nicolai-Electronics/rp2040-i2c-interface
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A lot of those used cheap Dell minipcs come with serial ports and the slightly biger ones may have a parallel port.
What kind of bolted-down expansion does a cheap n3350 box have? How fast can I swap the main storage for something completely different? Can I power it with my USB battery bank? Does it support two digital monitors or does it instead have one HDMI and one VGA (like this is 1987)? Can I use it like an appliance and just plug in easy-to-download images like LibreELEC or EmulationStation, or do I need to understand how to make computers work before I can have a good experience with Kodi or console emulation?
I can see plenty of n3350 systems with dual hdmi on google and plenty with drive bays and relevant connectivity. Those seem to cost ~$100 vs the minimalist $65 ones.
In terms of driver support these intel systems are the easiest to work with in Linux. Very mainstream and well established drivers.
All your pros are cons when you use a Pi as a 24/7 router or home server :)
Requirements may vary.
Requirements do vary.
And I've got no regrets about using a Pi 4 a router. It's sitting on the shelf next to me, and has been trouble-free for over four years now.
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