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Comment by defrost

12 days ago

Fair call and worth mentioning, cheers. I made a deliberate point to highlight the report source but didn't delve into the backend support.

All report producers have some spin direction and agenda, the amount of each varies and some think tanks are more notorious than others for bias (Heartland springs to mind).

That aside, Australia has a small population and at this point in time a rudderless plan for a carbon future; their conservative wing are all in on a nuclear plan that makes little economic sense and pretty much just green lights immediate coal plant expansion and kicking emissions targets down the road, the opposing left and governing wing have been captured by promises of carbon capture from LPG gas producers that are technically more sky than pie.

The technical report on Australian power futures: https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/energy/Gen...

Some commentary on the nuclear 'plan': https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%...

( webcache link to subscriber article )

and .. ffs I've misplaced an article shredding the opposition plan.

Power for the future is an interesting space ATM. I've appreciated your comments here BTW :-)

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defrost

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alephnerd  12 days ago

> Australia has a small population and at this point in time a rudderless plan for a carbon future

I'd disagree.

Australia is going all-in on Green Hydrogen for industrial usecases, and is working closely with Japan and India on this front [0][1] and has basically made production tax free [2].

Ik HNers are very negative in their views about Hydrogen Energy, but the slowness in the industry was due to the lack of funding and capital in the space, along with a relative lack of interest about the technology in the US.

Now that the UAE [3], KSA [4], Australia [0], Japan [5], South Korea [6], USA [7], and India [8] have all begun investing billions in coordination with each other in these projects, we'll see it productionize in a decade - especially because all these countries have FTAs with each other and are working together on Hydrogen capacity and investments (almost $100B at this point just among those 7).

[0] - https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen

[1] - https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-change/international-clima...

[2] - https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight...

[3] - https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/news/abu-dhabi-government-a...

[4] - https://saudiarabien.ahk.de/en/market-information/energy-sec...

[5] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/japan-invest-107-bln...

[6] - https://hk.boell.org/en/2023/04/26/wag-dog-hydrogen-scheme-s...

[7] - https://apnews.com/article/hydrogen-hubs-energy-biden-climat...

[8] - https://www.nbr.org/publication/the-evolving-story-of-hydrog...

  • defrost  12 days ago

    I'd argue that various industry captains in Australia are going all in on hydrogen (eg: Andrew Forrest most notably and a couple of long haul fixed route trucking contractors)

    (see, eg: https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-green-hydrogen-goal-ne... )

    and that the Liberal|National Coalition and Australian Labor Party (the two major political wings in Australian politics) are rudderless in the sense of appearing to have plans but neither are leading strongly.

    I like Hydrogen|Ammonia, and the biggest drive there is from the major billion tonne per annum mining producers that are converting massive cattle stations to solar farms for 24|7 energy to use in adjacent mining operations .. but these are not Australian Government projects ... although the .gov.au spin is happy to ride along and appear to be driving.

    • alephnerd  12 days ago

      > these are not Australian Government projects

      Imo, there's no reason for them to be.

      A lot of the R&D in the Hydrogen space was done by private companies like Eneos, Idemitsu Kosan, Hokkaido Electric, SK Group, Saudi Aramco, BP, GE, Siemens, Reliance, etc.

      Just by supporting private sector champions through tax breaks, R&D credits, seed funding, and PLI you are building an ecosystem.

      Even China does the same thing in the EV and Solar space, by supporting private sector companies like BYD, DAQI, LONGi, Jinko, Trina, and Canadian Solar.

      2 replies →

  • ZeroGravitas  12 days ago

    Quote from your first link:

    > We can use it:

    * to blend with (or replace) natural gas for homes, industry and cooking

    * for fuel cells to generate electricity to power cars, trucks, buses and trains

    * to store energy and generate electricity for mining sites and remote communities

    * as an industrial chemical feedstock for products such as ammonia, fertiliser and iron

    * to trade clean energy with other countries.

    Only the feedstock one really makes financial/economic/environmental/logical sense.

    The unwarranted industrial and governmental enthusiasm for Hydrogen in roles it doesn't make sense for, compared with the general apathy towards clean energy and electrification is somewhat baffling, unless it's seen mostly as handouts to the existing fossil fuel industry.