Comment by snek_case
3 months ago
If we had EVs that charge 20 to 80% in less than 10 minutes, it could be a real game changer. No more range anxiety. You could use charging stations more like gas stations (when you need to). Might also make it so people don't feel like they need EVs with as much range.
I wonder if that wouldn't allow gas stations to add EV charging stations. The square surface of a gas station is rather limited, which is not an issue when you can fill up in a minute or so. But if it takes you 30 minutes to recharge, the gas station can't serve enough customers to sustain their business. However, if you can get to a full charge in 10 minutes or 80% in 5 (I'm guess the last 20% is slower, etc.), then EV charging can become a viable business for gas stations.
I Supercharge at the grocery store, Target, etc vs a gas station. Certainly, gas stations are options when there is no other business around, like Buc-ee's, but I'd prefer to dwell somewhere decent vs your typical minimum viable gas station. Tesla colocates Supercharger stations at Meijer grocery stores in the Midwest for example, although they also have one at the Chattanooga airport in TN (was hard to find a better location early days there).
If you put fast chargers at places people already go today, you don't need gas stations outside of travel routes.
It also makes me wonder how different the packing efficiency would be- gas station fuel dispensers have short hoses and lots of safety features related to avoiding a spill, and it all takes up space. A fast EV charging station might still look more like a parking lot.
There already exists quite a bit today. I've seen multiple locations where there's 4-8 dispenser heads (chargers) located in the corner of an already normal highway-sized (i.e., ~8 pump) gas station with a medium sized convenience store. Takes up very little space compared ot the gas station pumps.
For places like Bucees (which is basically a small grocery store in size), 20 minute charges are pretty reasonable. By the time you walk to the store, use the bathroom, browse the goods, and stand in line for checkout, you're easily near 20 minutes. If anything, it seems beneficial for a place like Bucees since you're incentivized to spend a bit more time browsing and buying stuff.
Gas stations can't and won't be blanket converted to charging stations. The use models are just not compatible.
EV chargers belong in gigantic parking lots. So shopping centers and office complexes. The great thing about putting chargers in these locations is that they are both often close to highways, are places that people regularly visit, and they have complimentary usage hours (offices are empty when shopping centers are full, and vice versa).
Along you're lines chargers are commercial parking lots needs to be prioritized.
At least in California there is now often a glut of solar power during the day when presumably a lot of cars are parked at peoples workplaces.
That means 400+ kilowatts- doable, but pretty disruptive for grid operators. Typically that will mean expensive (>.5 MWh) onsite batteries. Gas stations are inherently capital-intensive but making a $200k+ bet may still be a struggle.
I wonder how the economics of onsite battery banks is vs petrol storage tanks, especially with the long term clean-up and mitigation expenses.
Range anxiety is overblown anyway for most drivers. I have a 220 mile range Nissan Leaf and have only experienced range anxiety once.
I totally agree, but it does only apply to drivers who have chargers at home. If you're parking on the street or in an apartment garage without enough chargers, things are different. That's less range anxiety and more range PITA though.
I know a couple of people who make it work without at-home charging. So I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Most grocery stores have chargers, as do a lot of office complexes, hotels, fitness centers, etc.
There's 70 public chargers within a 10 minute drive of my house. I think that outnumbers gas stations, but they are hard to count on google maps. So people who are living in high density areas probably have a lot of charging options near by.
I honestly doubt it. People with "range anxiety" will keep moving the goal post. They'll complain A) that's still not fast enough, B) there aren't enough public chargers, C) "the grid can't handle it."
What we have right now is good enough for a lot of people. I don't live in the most EV friendly area, but I know a few people who own EVs with no at home charging. And one of my Tesla owning neighbors parks his car in the driveway regularly, only charging occasionally.
If gasoline shortages hit tomorrow, a whole lot of people claiming they couldn't own an EV because of the limitations would figure out how to make it work.
I mean, the problem with charging isn't really the charge times right now. It's the fact that every non-Tesla charger is a piece of shit... and the fact that you need an account on every single different charging company, and some app on your phone that won't work properly.
> every non-Tesla charger is a piece of shit
That's fixed easily - just get a Tesla Supercharger subscription, most should be open to other EVs.
Yes, that costs money (i think around 10€/month here) but you're saving after the first full charge compared to others (Ionity for example) - and that's 'round here in .de, not exactly the country with the lowest charging costs... (ftr, i think the current low-end on Superchargers here in .de either with a Tesla or a subscription is around 0.41€/kWh whereas with aforementioned Ionity charges at least 0,64€/kWh when roaming).
Range anxiety has more to do with density of charging stations.
I feel zero range anxiety in my Tesla when I'm in Austin, Houston, or Dallas. When I drive to somewhere like Galveston that has 0 superchargers, I feel anxiety because there's not one around if I need it.
However I do completely agree that a 10m full charge time could be a game changer for increasing adoption. I don't mind the 15-20m average charge time, but for people like my mom (boomer) who have zero patience, a gas-station speed charging situation would be huge.
Why the need to point out “boomer”?
I’m not a boomer and I don’t want to sit at a gas station for 20 minutes either.
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