Comment by linearrust
12 days ago
> Industrialization is what brought prosperity to the masses.
Industrialization brought prosperity to the elites, just like colonialism and slavery did. You act like the poor masses were the biggest beneficiaries of industrialization. Most of the benefits of industrializations has gone to the elites. Just like colonialism and slavery.
> Colonialism and slavery benefited the reigning elite, but the average person almost didn’t see any benefit.
Simply false. Tens of millions of europeans crowded in the smallest continent on earth were able to migrate to other parts of the world and gain land ( which is one of the primary sources of wealth ). And the ability to offload excess population allowed european elite to invest in production rather than waste resources on their excess population. A win-win situation.
> Unfortunately that won’t stop people from lying that slavery is the foundation of wealthy western democracies.
Slavery and colonialism were the foundations of industrialization. Industrializaton requires two things - excess capital and excess resources. How do you think europe was able to procure excess capital and resources?
> Brazil had 10x more slaves than the USA [1]. They would have been the richest country in Latin America per capita if slavery was the foundation of rich modern democracies, but that’s far from the case
And one of the most industrialized nations ( North Korea ) is one of the poorest in the world. What's your point? Brazil ended slavery in the 1800s and industrialized. It still isn't 'one of the richest in Latin America per capita'? Obviously you need something more than industrialization. Like political safety and stability and competent leadership.
You seem to think people are saying you need slavery and colonialism to industrialize. That's not the case. The point is that europe industrialized due to slavery and colonialism.
It remarkable how many here watch silly youtube videos to get their understanding of history and economics.
> Most of the benefits of industrializations has gone to the elites. Just like colonialism and slavery.
The average individual is much better off economically and has a higher quality of life in an industrialized economy than one built on slavery.
I’m not arguing that slavery was good, but that it was orthogonal to industrialization. Virtually all countries practiced slavery at some point, but most didn’t industrialize.
Industrialization began with Britain running out of firewood and switching to coal as an alternative energy source. Steam engines were fine tuned to pump water out of coal mines, and people gradually began using steam engines to power other things, kickstarting the revolution.
My point is that Europe would have industrialized with or without slavery.
Thanks for picking North Korea as an example…a country where 43.5% works in agriculture and only a mere 14% in industry [1], compared to the much richer South Korea where only 5% work in agriculture [2]. It remains obvious that any economy built mainly on manual labor (slavery included) will be as mediocre as North Korea’s.
1-https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/north-korea/economy
2- https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/south-korea/economy
I understand your point, but not sure I would accuse those that misinterpret these things of lying. Many people are educated enough to know that the massive explosion in human advancement was heavily fueled by exploitation of some kind. They simply don't understand exactly what those exploitations are and the resulting effects they've had.